Curse

yui · Feb 06, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

just keep trying, as you already know percantages work on high numbers.

Anyone has a good setup with heores for taking down the Grasping Darkness? Was wondering to bring them in order to save some time on the first chamber. If i could kill graspings without preparation (discovering and killing DN) and just by rushing them with heroes would be nice.
Is that possible?

disarm76 · Feb 06, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraaksii

You have 2% chance. This chance can go between 0.000000000000000000000000000001% to 2%.

Huuummm....what kind of math is that?

eloogosciu · Feb 06, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I just CANT!!I wasted already 6k for entering the UW and i always fail with the first group of monsters.I have all the skills (btw. why AV is only for 8 seconds with 9 illusion? :|) Theyre interrupting me (yes,you said to wait until they use interrupt,but when i wait the enchantments are wearing off o_o) I once managed to kill group,but leftovers killed me because i didnt have a chance to recast enchantments and booh,dead. Im trying to do everything almost you do in the movies,but I just -CAN'T- ...
They've nerfed it and you need another build? (ffs, the skills now cost me 1k and im pretty poor ;|)
Oh,and always with EXTREME carefulness i manage to lure at least one aataxe.
From now on im "angry".

Koning · Feb 06, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I think you can't tell the ecto drop rates of smites after only 20 runs, you need to do at least 200 i think.

And this is (for the 100th time

) still doable with the same set of skills. yes, you are right on the part to put av up after their interrrupts. (attack if you aren't sure they used it). your enchants shouldn't be off by that time, or you wait too long (attacking 1 or 2 times is enough). when sv is up, immediatly begin with your combo (I lure 2 groups which makes up loose energy quicker, so if you take on 1 group maybe wait a few secs).

yui · Feb 06, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

The patrol aataxe is really troublesome, it just doesnt stop chasing me even
if i have SJH. Do grasping darknesses really drop ectos btw?
before the update i never completed a run (tried just 5 times) now i can do it most of the time when i dont die before taking the quest (patrol aataxe), so it is still doable but my time is always more than 14 mins. Whats yours?

Neriandal Freit · Feb 06, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I do believe someone should post a new video Post-Skill Update so everyone can view how to do this with out having to ask a thousand questions.

Cause I'm seeing a bunch of "I can't, I can't!" with a bunch of "You can, You can!"

eloogosciu · Feb 06, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Now i have ENOUGH UW for my entire life. Coming ataxes from nowhere when im trying to take the quest,some nightmares,other "funny" things make for me UW the most worst location to farming. Even trolls near droknars are more enjoyable. Im not going to even look at the name "Underworld" till somebody will make it clearer than it can be.

LouAl · Feb 06, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

wow, you are quite the defeatist...I think it took most people a few tries to get it right. If you expect to be perfect after 6 tries you are just kidding yourself. Go practice with the same skills and try to kill avicaras so that you can get better (they have lots of interrupts, can stip your enchants, etc just the same as the enemies in the UW). I probably spent 15 or 20k on entrance fees to the UW before I got a "full" run completed back before I knew what was going on down there.

Another good option is to go down with a group (with a regular build) so that you can get more familiar with the layout, spawns, quests, etc. Often the leader of the group pays or you will only have to pay a small aount.

eloogosciu · Feb 06, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

well,the previous post had already 6+12k count :/ Im just screwing up in the beggining,trying my best,being extremaly cautious. SOMETIMES i manage to kill few of them,but leftovers are finishing me off. And getting to smites is for my point of view impossible. And the best of all - i dont even know what im doing wrong ;/ Is it me,my luck,the map or what :| I want to improve,but if i have to spent 1214k entering the UW and dieing at the enterance without any improve later,than thank you very much :/

shadowblade520 · Feb 06, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by disarm76

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

I guess a lot of people are put off by those numbers, but fail to remember that Smites only drop ecto 2% of the time.

Well, if that percentage is true then considering there's about 40 (maybe more) smites each run:

40*20 runs= 800 smites
800*2%=16 ectos, not 7!!!!

My 20 runs tell me:
800*x=7 <=> x=0,875%

There 0,875% chance of a smite dropping an ecto!
It's a ridiculous percentage...

16 ecto is the ideal so after you farm 100 bajillion smites (+ or - 5 smites

) you will get 2% of them dropping ecto. When a single person farms, you are taking a sample of those smites. It might just so happen that you picked 40 smites that didn't drop any ecto, but there is also the chance that you will pick 40 smites that all have ecto (that would be an awesome smite run). I had a run where I had 5 ecto drop, but I've also had my fair share of zero ecto runs. All of this is from a statistical standpoint of course, assuming it was truly random, not taking into account the massive anti-farm code hole that you would be digging, should you farm 100 bajillion smites, and other things that may effect drop rates.

Suxipo · Feb 06, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I used to get like 1 or 2 ectos per run with my war/Me and Ele/Me. However, in the past few days, I have done 5-7 runs but not a single ecto dropped!! Plus I keep dying occasionally due to Nightmare popups when I am running: rend enchant and Aatxes will finish me in 1 sec.

Now the hardest part is to get to the smites. after that its just piece of cake.

leave UW unharmed for a while and see what will change. Now back to Dead Sword farming (got 0 so far).

cyrus_tk · Feb 06, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Hey koning. I have been using this build ever since you released it over all its brought in about 180 ectos and about 300k in just pure merch bait. It is still doable and i have always cast Av after the aggro anyway. You can usually count to 3 wiht a full aggro and then cast Av/Sv. Great build and i really do thank you for sharing. 5 stars

TurinPT · Feb 06, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

good build but not that profitable to me, theres just too many things that can go wrong in the first area.
After Aftershock, 1 squid never runs away, interrupting anything I try to cast while the others don't come back.
And the run to the smites is nearly impossible, a nightmare usually pops out when haste is recharging, putting an end to the run.

MrSlayer · Feb 07, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I stick with the Rt/Me build. Still works fine

.

And your maths is lame guys...

2%...percent meaning per hundred (cent = 100)

. Dunno what you are all off about but lets look at it LOGICALLY.

100 Smites = 2 ectos (using 2% - so 2 ectos per 100 kills)

The run contains 10 groups of smites (wow I remembered them all...too much UW). Each group has between 3 and 5 smites...lets be rash and average it at 4 smites per group.

Thats 40 smites per run. If you add up the XP you gain, you will notice probably about the same thing. So 2.5 runs should yield ONE ecto. Yay. Thats an hour for 1 ecto.

So we all know that its possible. However usually it looks something like this.

*practise*
*1st SUCCESSFUL RUN* --> 2 ectos (you spend 10 minutes screenshotting yourself at the end doing various emotes)
*2nd Run* --> You get cocky and die...spend several minutes swearing, then try again
*3rd Run* --> You get 1 ecto
*4th Run* --> You get no ecto
*5th, 6th and 7th Runs* --> Combined yeild 3 ectos. You feel good having made just over 70k on ectos and drops.
*7th run to 'n'th run* --> Randomly jumps between 1-2 ecto runs, and several NO ecto runs.

I would guess that it averages at around slightly more than 2%, in theory. Just because theres a 2% chance doesn't mean it can't hit that 2% every single time for maybe a whole run. Imagine that; a 40 ecto run.

Since I'm such a geek I can tell you there is a (1.09951163 × 10^-68)% chance of this happening so don't get your hopes up :P.

For those of you who don't know, that number is;

0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000010995

Yeah...tiny

shadowblade520 · Feb 07, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Again you can't look at it as mere probablility, it is a bit more involved than that. Read up on average distributions and you'll see where i'm coming from. If you take a run find the drop rate for that run. Do another run and find the drop rate for that run. Do enough runs and average all of the drop rates, it should come out to about 2%, assuming that is the correct value. I'm still waiting for my 40 ecto run btw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suxipo

I used to get like 1 or 2 ectos per run with my war/Me and Ele/Me. However, in the past few days, I have done 5-7 runs but not a single ecto dropped!! Plus I keep dying occasionally due to Nightmare popups when I am running: rend enchant and Aatxes will finish me in 1 sec.

Now the hardest part is to get to the smites. after that its just piece of cake.

leave UW unharmed for a while and see what will change. Now back to Dead Sword farming (got 0 so far).

Out of curiousity, have you done any quests in between those farms?
When ever I get a run with no ecto's I do two more and if those don't yield any, i do a quest, collect the reward, and i usually get an ecto or two on the next run. Try it out and see how it goes.

disarm76 · Feb 07, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I can make almost every run successful. Cool head and a lot of practice makes me kill the graspings with almost no risk.

As you start, use Djiin's haste, wait for it to almost recharge and run up each stair without aggroing the Attxes. This way will make (if any) nightmares on the stair to pop up. Kill them. then hit Djiin's haste again and go get the quest and come back. If by chance you aggro any Attxe upstairs they'll loose aggro as you run back.

Next step, get the 3 graspings groups separately if possible. As soon as you accept the quest come to the middle and cast:

Mantra of Earth
Stone Striker
Storm Djinn's haste
Stone flesh aura

By that order. Stone flesh aura in last because it's the armor that goes away first. Run up and down the left starway. You will aggro both the Attxes and the Graspings but since you're running the Attxes will stay behind. Pull the graspings a little beyond the starting point, wait like 2-3 sec for them to use their interrupts and cast SV.
2 seconds later cast Sandstorm, Earthquake and Aftershock. After that all grasping will run away but one. That one will die due to the Sandstorm, and then quickly recast your 3 armors.
The graspings will be back, wait for 2-3 sec for them to use their interrupts and cast SV, 2 sec later earthquake and Aftershock.

This always work. Do the same for the other 2 groups.

---------

Other story:

Quote:

Originally Posted by disarm76

Well, if that percentage is true then considering there's about 40 (maybe more) smites each run:

40*20 runs= 800 smites
800*2%=16 ectos, not 7!!!!

My 20 runs tell me:
800*x=7 <=> x=0,875%

There 0,875% chance of a smite dropping an ecto!
It's a ridiculous percentage...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlayer

I stick with the Rt/Me build. Still works fine

.

And your maths is lame guys...

2%...percent meaning per hundred (cent = 100)

. Dunno what you are all off about but lets look at it LOGICALLY.

100 Smites = 2 ectos (using 2% - so 2 ectos per 100 kills)

100 kills ----> 2 ectos
800 kills ----> n ectos

100n = 800 x 2 <=> 100n = 1600 <=> n=1600/100 <=> n=16 ectos in 800 kills.
Since 800 kills means 800/40 = 20 runs

Where the flaw in my math?

---------

As for the '20 runs is not enough to see':
I did 4 more runs after that initial 20 and got 1 more ecto.
So now, I'm at 24 runs --> 8 ectos

24 runs mean 24*40 = 960 smites

960 smites --> 8 ecto
100 smites --> n ecto

960n = 100 x 8 <=> 960n = 800 <=> n = 800/960 n=0,833(3)
I am at 0,83% chance per smite. The percentage is dropping not rising as it was supposed.
No wonder the ecto price is rising.

FayeWind · Feb 07, 2007, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Hi Koning, I am not ready with my ele so can you please test this build out for me? Instead of those 3 attack skills, can you try eruption > unsteadily ground > aftershock and let me know which one works better. Thank you so much.

yui · Feb 07, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurinPT

After Aftershock, 1 squid never runs away, interrupting anything I try to cast while the others don't come back.
And the run to the smites is nearly impossible, a nightmare usually pops out when haste is recharging, putting an end to the run.

1) it is normal that 1 squid never runs away, but it shouldnt be able to interrupt you (due to AV effect). If it interrupts you that means that your AV ended too early (you cant cast SS, EQ, AS in 8 secs?)
2) Just dont keep haste on, so when they ll pop just wait them to disenchant your earth enchantments then cast SJH and run away.
3) just a tip for those who are having problems with Graspings: do not care too much to stoneflesh aura. When they finished all their Dis Shot cast AV and then immediatly cast the earth combo, no matter if your stoneflesh aura has ended up. Then when 2 go away cast the aura (and maybe SStriker for energy) the one attacking you shouldnt be able to interrupt you.
4) be more careful when you find less than 3-4 DN in the 1st chamber, there might be 1-2 in smite area too (i never found more than 5 DNs per run)

Kcp · Feb 07, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I'm sorry guys, with the gwiki percentages, 2 % chance seems a little low but maybe I'm just extremely lucky or something.

The build isn't nearly as fun as it used to be now due to the SV and SS nerf.

Anet is a buzzkill as always time to move on to DoA farming

Koning · Feb 07, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by disarm76

Where the flaw in my math?

I think your flaw is (sorry if i'm wrong im not that good in statistics

) that you are calculating the probability, not the real chance. If you wanna calculate the real chance, you need to do other calculations (1-.... and stuff I believe). Since you try to calculate the chance, your math is not good, but with probability you can still say something about your expected ecto's. most of the time the probability turns out otherwise afterwards.